It'' s component of that I am. It ' s component of that'I ' ve become It ' s component of my path. The experience that I had with modding Sort of allowed me in my own mind to seek creating a game company extra seriously. So if I didn'' t have that modding experience, there ' s no chance I would certainly have had the confidence to start a video game business then in my life. So modding led me to the creation of New World, and the development of New World led to the commercialization of Revolt, it resulted in where I am today. The beginning of Insurgency emerged after I had dealt with a mod called Red Orchestra. I was the, I presume you might state the pioneer of that project in the feeling that I built the team And I was sort of the original vision behind the job leading up to the initial launch as a mod.That mod in fact wound up really effective and won the Legendary Games Make Something Unbelievable competition. And from that point onward kind of grown out of control into something a lot larger than a mod, and additionally brought about the development of the business Tripwire Interactive as well. And those people that run that business, I actually had brought them right into the mod originally. But I understood, being so young that I was, that I was not actually mosting likely to have the ability to proceed with that said mod, especially in a more industrial way.I was only, like, 16 at the time. I realized that my path
was going someplace else, and so around that time I made a decision to leave the Red Band job and go after something on my very own, seperately. The idea was to bring a great deal of the exact same design fundamentals that I had actually been an advocate of with Red Band such as: realistic look, complimentary aim tools, and bring that to an extra modern-day setting. What I did, was I was aiming to bring it to a potentially brand-new platform. I was working with Unreal prior to that, and decided that Half Life 2 was around to appear and it resembled everyone was chatting regarding it, and additionally Shutoff had actually spoken about how they were gon na launch an SDK. It appeared like the sensible area to go when it involves modding for the future. What I started to do, was I began to type of browse about, like, what does a pre-Half Life 2 modding scene appear like? Which ' s when I came across another mod called Operation: Counter-Insurgency, which was run by Andrew Spearin.I determined to come close to'him to essentially integrate our pressures as opposed to me going off and seeking this new job on my own. He currently had a couple of
people that were aiding him out on the task and had a great deal of ideas which were, you recognize, close enough to what I wanted, so it felt like we would have the ability to possibly fuse our concepts right into something purposeful. Therefore that ' s kind of where Revolt began. Back in around 2003, 2004, I saw online a group creating to develop this mod called “Insurgency.” It was among the larger mod tasks going on. There was a few, however that was one I was actually delighted around, and something I truly intended to be a part of. I assume simply the top quality that they had put thus far, It resembled it was alreaedy actually much along, and it just actually excited me to a part of something, like, that huge. At the time, I was doing Fifty percent Life 2 deathmatch maps in my leisure, therefore I made some blog posts, and I place in there, “I would at some point love to work with this mod.” Among the programmers at the time reached out to me and said, “would certainly you want to evaluate “and try something out, and see if we might add you to the group,” so they used me a level design area, “and afterwards I reached meet Jeremy and the rest of the group, and a great deal of pals that to this particular day, I still have.It was a big job for a mod. It was certainly an overall conversion, which there weren ' t most of at the time.
We took Half Life 2 and turned it right into a completely modern video game based on the war in Iraq, which at the time was, you know, a hot topic. and for me particularly, living near 9/11 in New York when that took place, a bunch of individuals in my school, they shed moms and dads. I think 9/11 in fact had a huge influence on, my very own, like, confusion with the globe. I didn ' t kind verdicts after 9/11, yet I began to recognize, like, as Americans, we probably recognize very bit, like what is actually taking place? And, like, when we attacked Iraq, it was sort of -it kind of brought that kind of questioning and type of that, like- this desire that I needed to understand far better just how our globe functions, and why we ' re fighting these wars and things like that.And I believe I constantly saw the war in Iraq as type of this grey dispute where it wasn ' t just black and white, great vs. evil that George Bush, you understand, preached when we were fighting. Not to state that the insurgents or torrorists in Iraq are good individuals, I put on ' t believe that we were necessarily in the right by invading this nation right now. In hindsight especially, yet even at the time. That interest which wishing to understand, and also wishing to share that possibly it ' s not as black and white as maybe the media could make it'appear and things, I assume may have worked as part of my artistic drive for Insurgency. Intending to make a game where you might play as either side and the game doesn ' t attempt to inform you that playing as an Inurgent is poor or'that playing as an insurgent is excellent. People are simply killing each various other. No side is great in that.If anything, it ' s extra concerning the techniques and the team effort and the experience of it'. I assume I realized early on we were onto something with the mod. It was definitely various than what was available. you had the bigger titles, like an ARMA, which leaned much more right into the realistic facets, you had Counter-Strike and you had various other action-oriented titles, but I believe that was the initial that I truly felt something different in just the manner in which we were approaching player auto mechanics and our HUD.It supplied something different I don ' t believe that existed then on
that scene. We were sort of regularly trying to discover the best balance in between what is realistic vs. what ' s enjoyable. And I assume that ' s where we obtain a lot of our praise with Insurgency, is that'we took care of to produce a video game that is, you know, very lethal, highly immersive, yet is likewise delightful, like it ' s not like you need to, you understand', walk for 30 mins somewhere, and after that you get shot, and you don ' t recognize where you got fired from, you understand? I was so impressed.It was up until now in front of its time.
The graphics initially, like, there was a lot information on screen. When I saw the screenshot, I was trying to think of just how the degrees were looking in my head, like this is nearly the genuine thing, this is just how it was looking, like, like a war movie, nearly. So I had all this inspiration with my head to make levels, and I resembled, “okay, I ' m jsut going to attempt to make something basic on “my own.'” And after that there was a man who was currently benefiting the Insurgency mod. He resembled, “Well, do you wish to sign up with Revolt?” and I was like, “” Well, I ' m not truly that great, you recognize? I ' m simply “basically starting,” you people are -for me it was practically'specialist. I was like,” “Yeah I actually like it, I would enjoy to sign up with.” Also if it was “to play the game, I truly intended to attempt the mod. And at some point, I resembled, I desire to do something different, a lot of maps around the time were actually pretty little, and, I dunno, it really feels very like a game arena.I after that I created the idea to develop Sinjar.
Which was this really large, huge map, where everyone was informing me, like, no that ' s not truly possible, in Half-Life 2, it ' s like, framerate, you recognize, and all sort of things, and even information. I was already convinced in the past, like, gameplay was essential. You can have the very best graphics, it doesn ' t matter if the gameplay is unsatisfactory. I generally started just with my idea, like, I had this large hill. And the adversary was on capital, and you ' re beginning down capital, so it was actually like the D-Day activity example. And I think it was around 2007 where I believe a few months before the mod appeared, that I finished the map.We placed it in and we see, since it was so different Revolt maps and even, like, graphics-wise it was sort of behind. And yeah, we released it for the mod, and it resembled, initially it was type of like, not every person was impressed in it, however after a number of months, it was like, “wow this is truly an awesome map, “” and it turned into one of one of the most popular maps in the mod. which is quite remarkable. I ' m still truly delighted with that. There was a lot of putting on numerous hats, I presume you can state. I was virtually doing whatever I seemed like I had to do to relocate the job further along. Enthusiasm resembled the money, right? If individuals displayed that they were passionate and interested enough, that they would contribute and just go away, after that we would certainly be a lot more likely to bring them aboard the team.Because we did have instances where individuals would, you know, sort of go away, like, we were significantly cooped to individuals ' s lives. You recognize, in some cases people would certainly simply go away for a month or 2 and we would certainly need to simply maintain going, you know? and sometimes people- life points would turn up, like, individuals would go college and afterwards just vanish. And there were a couple people that I was functioning really closely with in the original part of the task that weren ' t as energetic in the future, and I did locate myself in a whole lot of means bring the weight of the task on my shoulders up till the release itself. It was sometimes really tough to state you need a design done. If a person had an exam, or was hectic at the workplace then it could take, like, months prior to something got done. everyone was benefiting totally free, so you can not actually ask someone, you understand, yeah, you need to finish this tomorrow. You know, you ' re not making money, you ' re doing this simply out of, really simply the love of it, and'just intending to collaborate with your friends, to make sure that really ends up being a difficulty of how do you keep that emphasis, exactly how do you preserve that drive, and exactly how do you see something via to lastly see it launch? You know, I think that for a great deal of individuals on the team, there simply was an enthusiasm that we just truly desired to finish this, we truly wished to obtain it out the door.We saw people delighted in sites and forums concerning what we were doing, and what we were putting out, and I think we simply actually wished to finish what we began. The area I seem like wasn ' t actually extremely entailed with the mod while is being developed it was actually under the radar as were a great deal of various other Half-Life 2 mods at the time generally there wasn ' t a heap of like awareness around mods that were being created for Half-Life 2 I believe that they started to obtain more interest in even more Neighborhood support once they really obtained released it was really after Revolt was formally launched as a mod that we saw it getting a great deal of feedback and rate of interest So the area obtained involved when World Half-Life started posting regarding it That was additionally how I discovered out regarding the mod when I saw a screenshot on a web site Well ModDB among the big systems And certainly the discussion forums, we had our own forum and like more individuals were like joining and chatting regarding the mod so after that I knew like okay this is gon na be something big.I don ' t believe I was that shocked that it obtained that much focus I assume a great deal of us anticipated that and we push truly hard for that yet I ' m very thankful that it got that much attention you know to not only
complete something however I assume it just made us delighted to see you know individuals play it and people excited concerning it we expect the most effective and'I believe it really surpassed our assumptions So we obtained a whole lot of downloads it ' s difficult to state for sure what the amount was like we have some like resources that that share that like we had like a million downloads in like the very first week or something like that I imply it was cost-free right so any person could download it and that ' s rather huge but one point that I saw with it is, I presume similar to any type of game like already it is like when we’re delivering industrial video games the player count like when you first introduce you recognize it goes down, right so I assume I obsessed a bit over that you recognize we launched to so much you recognize a great deal of downloads, a great deal of passion, but the neighborhood decreased down really quick and I think I attributed that to a whole lot of like details choices and details aspects of the game however overall such as for a mod at a time I assume it did quite well The Mod of the Year honor that we obtained in 2007 from moddb.com it suggested alot like it was validation, it was telling us that we produced something excellent which we we knew we did but you recognize maybe the extent to which we didn ' t really comprehend it was outstanding it was you know you ' re helping complimentary and you understand to see that lots of people excited and to elect a lot of mods do begin, there are a great deal of mods that people launch and they have ideas however ideas are only a tiny percentage of advancement, you understand, the execution is the larger part I'' m truly pleased with that that we were able to finish it and persevere however obviously it is just, you recognize, it ' s an honor, it ' s not such as a concrete threshold of like we attained this lots of gamers or you understand we earned money so that we could such as start a company or anything like that So I believe although it was extremely verifying and awarding, there was still like a chip on our shoulders even afterwards a little like we still want more type of, like we intend to take this even more but around that time like after the mod launched and after we won the awards for it I had to go to university and I was in university I was in fact freshman I think when we released the mod but I was having a truly tough time running the mod properly while I remained in university so I did tip aside and place the mod into hands I thought would certainly have the ability to a minimum of keep points going there was a period like after I left where points sort of gone stale a bit there was some production with the mod, a map or 2 that obtained released and not much in regards to fresh functions or anything like that I dunno, I was doing a disservice to the mod by still running it at this factor in my life when I had all these diversions and you understand my education and various activities I was doing at the time so I did what I believed was in the best passion of the mod to hand points over after launch lots of people kind of went to complete college, some took work possibilities A whole lot of the initial individuals that I understood from that time made their means either right into the sector or they mosted likely to institution and discovered their back I think I was directly a little bit unclear about my very own future I think there was a little a you know fantasy with making the mod that you understand we were going to obtain gotten by Valve or we were going to get like a big capitalist involving us and wishing to collaborate with us and you understand start a firm or something but part of the issue is that we obtained chosen off like all of our ideal talent obtained selected off by the market some of them went to Crytek to EA to Blizzard in fact is where some of our men are and like individuals from the mod team just obtained chosen off from anywhere and we were left with scraps right? we didn ' t actually have much of a team any longer, it became clear that the cumulative vision of of the mod and it ' s some possibilities-it ' s not what it was perhaps a pair years ago when we all came together and began things there was like a pair of years there where I was like you know extra unbiased like screening myself whether or not this course that'I had currently shielding myself down was the best course for me or not I additionally owe it to myself especially because I ' m in college and I ' m like you know spending for this education that I should kind of do my due persistance and you understand, validate that so there was a little of like where can I take my skills from below and what will make me the most happy you know in life and I simulated you know explore these possibilities and after that I type of came complete circle and came right back, right?I kind of I simply couldn'' t quit considering games again and what I wished to create so towards the end of college I began thinking about it once again and I started seeing where Insurgency was as a mod Like, that was running it at that point and if there had been any kind of progress and if I can return and assist once again when I left and I handed points off, it was under the understanding that I would certainly have the ability to return if I selected to after that when I came back there was a little bit of a conflict around that There was a little bit of like- I felt much less needed than I anticipated and I seemed like the individuals that were you recognize sort of running it then in time A: they weren'' t actually a part of the task from the start and they were not a part of the team that brought it to release and B: like their vision in fact was deviant from our original vision so I did actually make aggressive efforts to kind of take the mod back because of that I spent a lot in my life into Insurgency and you know both its fertilization and getting it also launched and out the door and and being a thing you recognize that I felt some level of responsibility for not allowing it you understand dwindle and develop into something that was insignificant so I think that'' s kind of where I kind of returned to Insurgency was trying to kind of get the IP back and take it in a different direction it was about 3 years after the mod had actually appeared it, resembled 2010 about when I began coming back to the idea of dealing with the mod, the idea of advertising it it included a number of individuals from the mod, in certain it included James Mansfield our former lead developer It included Jon Hickenbottom A close pal of mine, Mark Eaton, contacted me and stated hey you understand Jeremy is chatting concerning making this a retail industrial job therefore it excited me and I wanted to be a part of what was taking place at the time it was simply talks of like what would occur and the good news is you know believe it was like a year afterwards, they offered me an examination to do level design position so certainly we needed funding to begin a business in to make games I had no experience with increasing money and I had no interest truly in the monetary element of running your company so I recognized that I needed help there I was very lucky like my papa really recognized somebody who took place to be a corporate expert and additionally like an instructor to a great deal of business owners and things like that and he decided to introduce me to him and his name is Keith Warner long story brief he ended up being our CFO and he'' s currently our president of the company I obtained a phone call from Jeremy'' s daddy Bruce and he welcomed me to help his son he recognized I was speaking with during that time doing kind of business approach work and he stated you understand my kid desires to begin a video game firm can you aid him I said certain I'' ll be pleased to aid no trouble and Jeremy and I talked on the phone a pair times and eventually he flew out here to Colorado back then I was thrilled with his self-confidence level, the truth that he introduced a couple of games, I didn'' t understand quite about the video clip game industry, you know I originate from a period where video games were you recognize stand boxes where you taking a seat in front of the machine and you relocating a lever and it was never something that I was huge into he looked like you knew what he was doing in video gaming, he didn'' t have an idea regarding organization, which ' s where I suit, And he was my friend’s kid,'so I stated sure I ' ll help you and I ' ll do it absolutely free and my goal was to teach him to depend on his own feet I had actually never intended to be included long-term, I was doing this as a support which about the three or 4 month mark, he type of taken a look at me and claims would you be my CFO and I said fine, yet you have no cash and playfully I stated to him what do you intend to do He goes, well you go obtain the cash and afterwards I of course claimed well we have no cash to pay ourselves He goes, we'' ll number that out will certainly postpone it at the time he worked mainly as CFO assisting me raise money and likewise to bring the firm to type of a more monetarily structured organization that was sort of doing not have originally when I began things due to the fact that I was significantly made use of to type of like the modding and the free-form hobbyist method to what we were doing and I believe I didn'' t actually completely comprehend the significance of agreements and the value of money you recognize in making video games and points like that but I was still dedicated to the idea of making games whatever it took you I recognized that he was going to assist me accomplish my goals and I believe he was perhaps a little bit thrilled about the possibility of what this can become You understand that was type of the beginning of a really crucial dynamic in our firm We had different experiments we were servicing however one of the ones that we intended to do was to deal with an industrial version of Revolt to realize a fuller version of what we did for the mod I was delighted to deal with Insurgency once again, I assume it was something acquainted, You recognize it was simply something that I invested numerous years dealing with we didn'' t start it recognizing with 100 assurance that Revolt was mosting likely to be our first job ultimately I recognized that I wished to make games, I had experience with FPS video games, I had concepts of various other FPS games too that I wish to make yet through discovering every one of our options and after talking with a great deal of the vital individuals from the Revolt mod it ended up being clear that that resembled a great starting factor for our company we didn'' t truly have an extremely clear image of what the end product would certainly be you understand we were basically claiming like appearance we'' re mosting likely to take this experience that already exists you can examine it out you can play it and see what it'' s concerning and we ' re going to make it'far better and we ' re mosting likely to make it'bigger and we ' re going to take the points that individuals like one of the most about it and push those things further and remove the points that you recognize individuals fought with we started to experiment we began to attempt various points, we had a king of the hill-type game setting which ended up being kind of like the occupy game-mode in Insurgency You know it was a great deal of fun, yet the difficulty with it is it was a bit as well small so we wound up going even more and including more video game settings, even more larger-scale video game settings, altering the level layout we brought, you recognize, larger range maps with various close quarters and long-range capabilities and you recognize simply trying to be genuine to what we recognized from the degree style and to additionally bring new concepts of what the game could possibly be, you understand, it might be larger than what we understood before I think like that style purpose of you recognize having a video game that both really feels very immersive, sensible, tense, and fun has not been easy, and it'' s constantly been essential to like the layout tests that we faced you need to be straightforward like it was truly long time back, I can'' t bear in mind the exact reason that we determined to select Revolt 2 I assume it'' s since we believed that people would certainly link the initial Insurgency as Revolt 1 I kind of had this positive feeling that everybody learnt about Revolt and that by bringing Revolt back in a manner of speaking that we'' d have kind of this built-in target market like people awaiting the new one yet it transformed out that actually like not true in any way there were still people playing the mod and I acquired that said wow there'' s an audience! exactly how numerous? and'that ' s what I found out about concurrent gamers, oh there'' s a hundred simultaneous players and my head hung low, 100 concurrent players, I imply are you joking? the heritage so to speak or the recognition bordering the Insurgency mod was not as relevant as we believed that it existed a couple of people that type of entered into our area later that we'' re like oh I played the mod You understand, and they might have even like developed customized servers for the mod and things like that and they were so ecstatic that we had come back yet this was such a specific niche point we understood this gradually over the training course of the development The type of minutes we recognized it the heaviest were the Kickstarter Yeah the kickstarter was- it was harsh You understand it’s difficult to fall short like that right out of eviction It was a rude awakening that you know we had a great deal of work to do and we had to discover a means to excite people regarding this we dealt with a companion, an advertising companion, they were persuaded that Revolt had weight they were in fact a huge advocate of the Kickstarter, they are the ones that kind of made us really feel a lot more risk-free doing it their confidence sort of like I assume flowed into our confidence and made us seem like all right, like they counted on us, individuals know concerning Insurgency, this is going to increase on Kickstarter and people are going to, you recognize, offer us their cash because we have a performance history that they know of, you understand, and like it'' s a trendy concept it was kind of a big flop they got the cash rear of course as collaborate with Kickstarter You understand look, as business guy and a finance guy, that doesn'' t desire cost-free money? if we ' d have done it right would we have accomplished our objective? Maybe.But I believe
that the lesson for us was there truly is nothing complimentary you know points were looking extremely alarming we made a decision to our very own Early Gain Access To prior to Very early Access existed on Heavy steam where we marketed tricks, steam tricks, on our own site in March of 2013 a month prior to Early Access began on Vapor and we just made sufficient cash doing that to obtain us one even more month it was kind of like a wrench that obtained tossed in us you understand due to the fact that we were operating under the presumption that you understand we at the very least had a bit of a complying with from the mod I believe I made us really feel like a little bit much more susceptible like a bit more in the dark the Kickstarter had failed, the recognition around the mod was not going to help us at all with the video game, which we were extremely limited on funds I believe this was the hardest moment in our firm'' s history where it appeared like points were not mosting likely to achieve success, things were going downhill, things were going to break down If anything, I have one of the most confidence on the group due to the fact that I had to, right? I needed to be the one that saw light at the end of the tunnel therefore there was most definitely a tension there of you understand what'' s going to occur I stuck with the group but I relocated back and one of our programmers moved back And I'' m certain that put a lot of pressure and stress and anxiety on you understand Jeremy and you understand the remainder of the team that was still there some people left, we let some people go, we really shut an office right here in Colorado and we in fact distributed we all returned to being a really indie once more and it seemed like a backwards action, right? we had a small office and things seemed like they resembled genuine we were modders any longer that this was extra major than that and afterwards all the abrupt like we have to damage apart and we have to reduce costs any place we can I believe our group reduced to concerning possibly 12 individuals to simply have the duties that were type of deemed essential to obtain to the next actions definitely at that moment, you understand, underwent the fire of like how can we maintain this job to life and you know luckily for us right around the corner Heavy steam and Shutoff announce Very early Access which I think was, you know, the light that we never ever saw coming, however it altered everything for us Early Accessibility essentially conserved us in fact it was kind of a miracle for us since in like April like essentially a month after all that disorder and stress had occurred, we finished up being among the very first video games to view on Vapor’s Early Accessibility platform we did not make a lots of cash or do incredibly well yet we did well sufficient that it offered the firm and the job life It changed everything, we had the ability to currently fund growth while developing, so we didn'' t have to hurry to obtain the game out in regards to release I don'' t know if we would certainly be right here if Early Gain access to was not readily available for designers I assume like the very first month of the Early Accessibility launch might have provided us like three months of advancement or something, however then we kept generating income undoubtedly after that and we kept upgrading it and sales maintained occurring you called we updated it we did surveys to type of see like what individuals liked, what individuals didn'' t like using data to enhance the experience and to make it much better we obtained a great deal of favorable comments from individuals, despite the fact that we additionally obtained a great deal of like vital feedback, which is hard for designers, especially young developers that haven'' t created like the thick skin yet, you know, to hear all of us saw a great deal of hope from that be back that we got combining that new hope with the cash that came from it like primarily led the way for us to maintain going, for us to keep moving on, for us to reach a release having this opportunity to establish with our neighborhood that actually aided alter and form what we were doing we had a great deal of people in our community offering us comments that enabled us to truly form the game that people were thrilled about and we could see things that we possibly wouldn'' t have seen if we had just did it on our very own alone far from that, and then released the game You understand it’s a lot of job, there'' s a great deal of late nights attempting to like figure it out trying to obtain the last touches of what we wanted for launch when you have something like a video game on Vapor, you can truly upgrade to some of the last days prior to it'' s going to be out for the consumer, so it was a great deal of just us attempting to be perfectionists and attempting to release the finest possible item we could to be sincere like we basically approached this as like we'' re attempting to obtain this out as swiftly as we can, however we likewise require to wait until the best minute you recognize, when the video game really feels complete I didn'' t do any type of game developer established feeling of perfectionism like where you have a difficult time letting your child go type of, Due to the fact that you recognize all the defects, even if the gamers don'' t recognize them yet, like you understand that this could be much better, or that there'' s a little bug here or there and all you can consider are those blemishes inevitably I think you'' re kind of connections into like the stating that best is the enemy of great you could rest on a video game permanently developing it to perfection, but you'' ll never deliver it if you do that it can just be as excellent as you can make it within this assigned time for it among our investors pressed us a great deal, Well what type of returns will you make? The number of units will you offer? and I distinctly bear in mind not knowing the solution we obtained our contact at Shutoff on the phone, I believe his name was Mike Dunkel and I said, you understand, Mike, we need some numbers He goes, okay, so if your successful you'' ll do 50,000, if'you'' re fantastic you ' ll do two hundred thousand, and if you'knock it out of the ballpark', you ' ll do a million I couldn ' t forecast knocking it out of the ball park I didn ' t understand if I could even anticipate 200, so what do we do? we forecast 150,000, we developed our forecast on that, and I could see a runway for our investors, ooh they'' re mosting likely to make their refund, they'' re going to make 25% or 30%, whatever it was and I believe by the time we introduced, we mored than 2 hundred thousand duplicates and afterwards it resembled whoa this is genuine yeah it was interesting to see the game, you know, have that function and individuals be excited and I bear in mind the initial million bucks I think that we sold, like, Jeremy pulls me over, reveals me his computer system screen, and it was unbelievable that million was a big celebration one of the important things people don'' t recognize is $1,000,000 top-line for a pc gaming company, Ooh, it’s a great deal of money- not near the bottom line not when your monthly prices are now a hundred grand you go from 4 to 8 to 10 to 12 to 15 people To a location, opening up another area, oh yes we desire that brand-new toy i.e.That new motion-capture innovation, that brand-new middleware so that million bucks was enormous due to the fact that it validated that we can construct good ideas and now I needed to make the cash real since we had cash and now that we realize that we weren ' t in dire straits, I guess you could say it was kind of like what'' s next, you know, I began to ask yourself like what what does the future resemble? you unlike the mod, where everybody simply kind of went off in various instructions, that wasn'' t going to occur this time around right like we needed a clear path so I assume it forced us to sort of face the reality that this isn'' t nearly Revolt any longer this isn'' t nearly being a start-up any longer this is about developing something sustainable and additionally the reality that we'' re going to unavoidably be making brand-new games and we need to figure out exactly how we'' re mosting likely to do that and what are procedure looks like exactly how we'' re going to accomplish those objectives to be honest there was a lot that happened for many years ahead complying with Revolt a great deal of like attempting things and not necessarily succeeding, you recognize, and like figuring out like what kind of benefit the company I believe in general, this type of ties right into one of our sort of cultural concepts which is, like, our team believe as a firm in advancement that, like, we are always attempting to develop the most effective possible experience for our fans and for our team and I think that we'' ve sort of been constantly trying to achieve that objective however possibly having actually constantly been successful with it and sort of take the method of, rather than leaving it in kind of a broken state, whatever it could be that we’re committed to finding out exactly how we'' re going to take that following step and make it much better.